Steve Jobs - The Lost Interview (11 May 2012) [VO] [ST-FR] [Ultra HD 4K]

SUMMARY

In a rediscovered 1995 interview, journalist Robert X. Cringely speaks with Steve Jobs about his youthful fascination with computers, founding Apple, key innovations like the Macintosh, corporate struggles, and future visions of technology as a tool for human potential.

STATEMENTS

Steve Jobs first encountered a computer at age 10 or 11 through a time-sharing terminal at NASA's Ames Research Center, sparking his lifelong passion.
Early computers were mysterious, depicted in movies as large boxes with tape drives or flashing lights, inaccessible to most people.
Jobs called Bill Hewlett at age 12 to request spare parts for a frequency counter, leading to a summer job at Hewlett-Packard that shaped his view of companies.
Hewlett-Packard treated employees exceptionally well, providing coffee and donut breaks and recognizing their value as the company's true asset.
Jobs visited HP's Palo Alto Research Labs weekly, where he first saw the HP 9100, the world's first desktop computer, and became enamored with programming it.
Jobs met Steve Wozniak around age 14 or 15, bonding over electronics and inspired by an Esquire article about Captain Crunch's free phone calls.
Jobs and Wozniak built blue boxes to hack the AT&T phone network using secret tones, realizing they could control vast infrastructure with simple devices.
The blue box project taught Jobs and Wozniak that young people could build small things to influence giant systems, a lesson foundational to Apple's creation.
Necessity drove the shift from blue boxes to personal computers; they built a terminal for free time-sharing access since they couldn't afford one.
The Apple I was an extension of their terminal, built by hand with scavenged parts for personal use, taking 40 to 80 hours each.
Friends wanted Apple I computers but lacked skills, so Jobs and Wozniak helped build them, leading to the idea of printed circuit boards to save time.
Jobs sold his Volkswagen bus and Wozniak his calculator to fund the first printed circuit boards, selling them to friends at cost.
Paul Terrell of the Byte Shop ordered 50 assembled Apple I boards, forcing Jobs and Wozniak to learn parts sourcing and assembly on credit.
They assembled 100 Apple I units, sold 50 to the Byte Shop in 29 days, paid suppliers on day 30, and realized profits through the remaining 50.
Mike Markkula joined as a key figure, investing money and expertise to package the Apple II for non-hobbyists, aiming for mass appeal.
The Apple II debuted at the West Coast Computer Faire with advanced color graphics, stealing the show and attracting dealers.
Jobs learned business by questioning "why" practices exist, uncovering folklore like standard costing due to poor information systems.
Programming teaches structured thinking, akin to law school, and should be a liberal arts requirement for everyone.
Jobs became a multimillionaire by age 23 but prioritized company, people, and products over money, never selling stock initially.
At Xerox PARC, Jobs was captivated by the graphical user interface, recognizing its inevitability for all future computers.
Xerox failed to commercialize innovations because sales and marketing "toner heads" overpowered product visionaries in their monopoly.
IBM's PC entry scared Apple, but its initial poor product succeeded due to ecosystem partners with vested interests.
Implementing Xerox ideas at Apple required overriding HP-influenced engineers who dismissed mice and proportional fonts.
Companies falter by institutionalizing process over content, confusing management rituals for innovation.
The Lisa project mismatched Apple's culture and market, priced at $10,000 for hobbyist channels expecting affordability.
After losing Lisa leadership, Jobs formed a skunkworks team for Macintosh, reinventing manufacturing, distribution, and marketing.
Motivating the Mac team involved passion and direct feedback, emphasizing craftsmanship between idea and product.
Great products emerge from talented teams rubbing against each other like rocks in a tumbler, polishing ideas through friction.
In software and hardware, the gap between average and best is 50-to-1 or more, so hire only A-players who self-select.
Jobs' feedback was blunt, focusing on work quality without questioning abilities, and he readily admitted being wrong for success.
Apple pioneered desktop publishing by partnering with Adobe and Canon for the LaserWriter, despite internal resistance.
Jobs' departure from Apple in 1985 stemmed from clashing with John Sculley during a recession, where survival instincts led to his ousting.
Apple's post-Jobs stagnation eroded its lead, with billions in R&D yielding minimal innovation due to leadership voids.
Microsoft succeeded via opportunism and persistence, boosted by IBM, but lacks taste, culture, and enlightenment in products.
NeXT focuses on object-oriented software, revolutionizing development speed by 10 times, targeting business potency.
The web will transform society as the ultimate direct distribution channel, equalizing small and large companies.
Computers are the "bicycle of the mind," amplifying human abilities like no other tool in history.
Innovation direction relies on taste, stealing great ideas from arts and liberal fields to infuse products with spirit.
Jobs identifies as a hippie, valuing a quest beyond mundane life, which infuses Apple's products with deeper meaning.

IDEAS

Encountering computers as a child felt like a privilege, turning abstract mystery into tangible execution of ideas.
Calling a CEO at 12 for parts reveals unlisted numbers' accessibility and how boldness opens corporate doors.
HP's employee perks like donut carts humanized companies, contrasting modern efficiency-driven cultures.
The HP 9100's self-contained design eliminated the "man behind the curtain" mystique of computing.
Blue boxing demonstrated how flawed engineering (signals in voice band) enables outsiders to hijack systems.
Hacking global phone networks for free calls around the world showed infrastructure's vulnerability to ingenuity.
Pretending to be Henry Kissinger to reach the Pope highlights youthful mischief's blend of audacity and humor.
Building personal terminals from necessity birthed the Apple I, blurring hobby and invention.
Selling a bus and calculator to fund PCBs illustrates scrappy entrepreneurship without venture capital.
Assembling on net-30 credit without understanding terms risked everything but launched Apple.
Packaging Apple II for software hobbyists expanded the market 1,000-fold beyond hardware tinkerers.
Questioning business "why"s exposes folklore, like standard costing masking poor controls.
Programming mirrors thought processes, training logical decomposition more valuably than practical use.
Wealth at 23 felt secondary to enabling human potential through products.
Xerox's GUI demo blinded Jobs to networking and objects, yet ignited Apple's interface revolution.
Monopolies promote sales over product genius, rotting innovation like Xerox's "toner heads."
IBM's ecosystem genius saved its flawed PC, leveraging partners' interests.
Engineers screaming a mouse would cost $300 and take five years underestimated rapid iteration.
Process institutionalization confuses bureaucracy for creativity, dooming giants like IBM.
Lisa's $10,000 price ignored Apple's affordable image, causing market mismatch.
Macintosh as a "mission from God" saved Apple by reinventing from roots.
Ideas evolve through trade-offs in materials, electronics, and factories—craftsmanship's core.
Team friction like rock tumbling polishes raw ideas into brilliant products.
A-player dynamics self-perpetuate, rejecting B/C talent for excellence.
Firing signals work inadequacy, not personal doubt, to refocus top talent.
Desktop publishing arose from early laser tech and Adobe partnership, defying internal skepticism.
Sculley's Pepsi background favored sales over rapid product evolution, clashing with tech pace.
Apple's 1985 paralysis from recession exposed leadership vacuums, amplifying divisional issues.
Post-departure R&D billions yielded 25% change, showing vision's evaporation without leadership.
Microsoft's tasteless products, like sans-serif fonts without typesetting heritage, pedestrianize computing.
Object-oriented tech at NeXT speeds software 10x, infiltrating businesses as competitive weapons.
Web equalizes company sizes, fulfilling computers' communication destiny over computation.
Bicycle efficiency analogy positions computers as humanity's ultimate amplifier.
Hippie ethos seeks life's deeper "inrush," infusing tech with poetic spirit beyond utility.

INSIGHTS

Early access to technology demystifies power, empowering youth to innovate beyond perceived limits.
Bold directness in youth forges influential connections, shaping lifelong business philosophies.
Valuing employees as core assets fosters loyalty and innovation in organizational culture.
Self-contained tools eliminate intermediaries, making complex tech personally accessible and inspiring.
System flaws become opportunities for disruption when understanding meets creativity.
Small inventions controlling vast networks teach scalable impact from humble origins.
Mischief in exploration builds resilience and joy, essential for sustained invention.
Necessity without resources breeds resourceful engineering, evolving hobbies into industries.
Scrappy funding sustains bootstrapped ventures, proving minimal capital can launch revolutions.
Credit leverage without expertise risks failure but accelerates growth through trial.
Mass packaging democratizes tech, shifting from elites to everyday users exponentially.
Persistent questioning dismantles inefficient traditions, revealing true operational weaknesses.
Coding cultivates precise thinking, universally applicable like legal training for logic.
Financial success amplifies ideas, not ends, when mission-driven over monetary.
Blinding inspirations overlook adjacent breakthroughs, yet propel focused revolutions.
Monopolistic complacency elevates non-creatives, eroding foundational product sensibilities.
Ecosystems amplify weak starts, turning corporate might into collaborative dominance.
Resistance from legacy mindsets demands outsider prototyping to validate visions.
Bureaucratic processes eclipse content, leading large entities to forget innovation's essence.
Pricing misalignment with brand ethos dooms even advanced products commercially.
Skunkworks revive companies by realigning to core missions amid bureaucracy.
Product design juggles myriad constraints, evolving daily through adaptive craftsmanship.
Collaborative friction among elites refines mediocrity into excellence organically.
Elite teams self-sustain high standards, creating virtuous cycles of talent attraction.
Direct critique preserves confidence while demanding excellence for collective goals.
Strategic pivots, like software over hardware, seize superior ideas timely.
Survival instincts in crises scapegoat visionaries, prioritizing self over strategy.
Stagnant leadership dissipates innovative momentum, squandering leads despite investments.
Opportunistic persistence, not originality, captures markets when backed by scale.
Taste infuses culture into tech, elevating utility to inspirational subtlety.
Web's openness reignites computing's communicative potential, fostering egalitarian innovation.

QUOTES

"I called up Bill Hewlett who lived in Hewlett Packard at the time and... I said hi my name is Steve Jobs... I'm 12 years old and I'm building a frequency counter and I'd like some spare parts."
"We could build something ourselves that could control billions of dollars worth of infrastructure in the world."
"I don't think there would have ever been an Apple computer had there not been blue boxing."
"If we could make a printed circuit board... you could build an Apple One in a few hours instead of 40 hours."
"I looked like a renegade from the human race."
"Nobody knows why they do what they do. Nobody thinks about things very deeply in business."
"Everybody in this country should learn how to program a computer... because it teaches you how to think."
"I was worth about over a million dollars when I was 23 and over $10 million when I was 24 and over $100 million when I was 25."
"Within 10 minutes it was obvious to me that all computers would work like this someday."
"They just grabbed defeat from the greatest victory in the computer industry."
"It's not process, it's content."
"There's a tremendous amount of craftsmanship in between a great idea and a great product."
"A team of people doing something they really believe in is like... rubbing against each other like this a little bit of friction creating a little bit of noise had come out these beautiful polished rocks."
"In software... the difference between average and the best is 50 to one maybe 100 to one."
"When you say someone's work is shit... it means their work is not anywhere near good enough."
"I don't really care about being right... what matters to me is that we do the right thing."
"Microsoft... they just have no taste... their products have no spirit of enlightenment about them."
"The personal computer was the bicycle of the mind."

HABITS

Routinely question business practices by asking "why" to uncover underlying inefficiencies.
Seek out and immerse in cutting-edge research labs to absorb innovative ideas.
Build personal prototypes from scavenged parts to solve immediate needs.
Collaborate closely with skilled partners on hands-on projects to accelerate learning.
Visit global factories extensively to study and adapt manufacturing techniques.
Assemble diverse teams of top talents from varied fields for creative synergy.
Provide direct, work-focused feedback to maintain high standards without ego involvement.
Read widely across arts, sciences, and history to inform product taste.
Prioritize content understanding over process adherence in management.
Admit errors quickly and pivot based on new evidence for better outcomes.
Bootstrap funding through personal asset sales to retain control early.
Form small, mission-driven skunkworks teams to bypass bureaucracy.
Infuse personal passions, like hippie ideals, into product development ethos.

FACTS

In 1971, unlisted phone numbers didn't exist, allowing a 12-year-old Jobs to directly call Bill Hewlett.
HP once wheeled out coffee and donuts daily at 10 a.m., emphasizing employee well-being pre-cholesterol awareness.
The HP 9100, suitcase-sized, featured the first CRT display in a personal computing device.
Blue boxes exploited AT&T's design flaw by using voice-band signaling for inter-computer control.
Jobs and Wozniak's blue box was fully digital, the world's best, with a logo quoting "He's Got the Whole World in His Hands."
The Byte Shop in Mountain View was the first computer store, later becoming an adult bookstore.
Apple II's graphics at the 1977 West Coast Computer Faire were the most advanced for personal computers then.
Jobs negotiated Macintosh's microprocessor at one-fifth Lisa's price via higher volume commitment.
Xerox PARC networked over 100 Alto computers with email in 1979, predating widespread adoption.
IBM's PC launched with a terrible product but succeeded through open architecture and partners.
Apple's automated Fremont factory was the world's first for computers in 1984.
LaserWriter debuted as the first affordable laser printer, sharing via AppleTalk.
By 1985, Apple became the world's largest printer company by revenue under Jobs.
Macintosh line changed only 25% from 1985 to 1995 despite billions in R&D.

REFERENCES

Triumph of the Nerds (TV series by Robert X. Cringely).
Esquire magazine article on Captain Crunch.
AT&T technical journal from Stanford Linear Accelerator Center library.
NASA Ames Research Center time-sharing terminal.
HP 9100 desktop computer.
Apple I and Apple II computers.
Macintosh computer and Lisa.
Xerox PARC's Alto computer, graphical user interface, object-oriented programming, networked systems.
Blue box (tone generator for phone hacking).
LaserWriter printer and Adobe PostScript software.
Canon laser printer engine.
NeXT operating system and object-oriented software.
Microsoft Windows and applications.
Web and Internet technologies.
Scientific American article on locomotion efficiency.
Picasso's saying: "Good artists copy, great artists steal."
Bill Atkinson quote on feedback.
MCI's Friends and Family billing software.
PepsiCo product cycles.

HOW TO APPLY

Start with personal curiosity: Access early tech like terminals to experiment and execute ideas hands-on.
Build boldness: Cold-call experts for resources, turning potential rejections into opportunities like jobs.
Foster company culture: Implement employee perks to recognize human value, boosting morale and retention.
Tinker relentlessly: Spend hours programming self-contained devices to fall in love with creation.
Partner strategically: Seek electronics experts for complementary skills, accelerating project feasibility.
Hack systems ethically: Study infrastructures for flaws, building tools that control larger networks.
Prototype necessities: Design terminals or boards when commercial options are unaffordable, evolving needs.
Scavenge and assemble: Use free parts and manual labor to build initial products despite time intensity.
Scale modestly: Create PCBs to reduce build time, selling at cost to friends to regain personal time.
Fund scrappily: Sell personal assets to prototype, maintaining independence from external investors.
Pitch assembled: Approach stores for bulk orders, adapting to demands like full assembly.
Source on credit: Negotiate net-30 terms with suppliers, assembling and selling quickly to cycle cash.

ONE-SENTENCE TAKEAWAY

Steve Jobs' journey reveals that blending hippie curiosity with nerdy innovation creates tools amplifying human potential profoundly.

RECOMMENDATIONS

Expose children to computers early to ignite lifelong passion through direct interaction.
Question every business practice deeply to eliminate outdated folklore and improve efficiency.
Learn programming as a thinking tool, mandatory like liberal arts for structured cognition.
Prioritize product content over process to sustain innovation in growing companies.
Hire only A-players, as their synergy creates self-reinforcing excellence pockets.
Form diverse teams from arts and sciences to infuse products with cultural depth.
Override internal resistance with rapid prototypes to validate bold visions.
Focus on craftsmanship trade-offs to evolve ideas into viable, elegant products.
Use direct feedback on work to elevate standards without damaging confidence.
Partner opportunistically, like with Adobe, to leverage external strengths swiftly.
Bootstrap ventures to retain control, using personal risks for initial momentum.
Reinvent during crises via skunkworks, realigning to core values aggressively.
Steal great ideas shamelessly from other fields, guided by refined taste.
Build ecosystems that vest partners in success, amplifying initial weaknesses.
View tech as communication amplifiers, nudging societal vectors toward enlightenment.
Infuse hippie spirit into products for emotional resonance beyond utility.
Persist like Microsoft but add taste to elevate pedestrian successes.
Commercialize overlooked gems like objects for 10x software efficiency.
Embrace web's openness to equalize opportunities across company sizes.
Treat computers as humanity's bicycle, directing their path for maximal amplification.

MEMO

In 1995, as the tech world buzzed with the internet's promise, journalist Robert X. Cringely unearthed a forgotten gem: his full interview with Steve Jobs, conducted a decade earlier amid Apple's turbulence. Jobs, then steering NeXT after his acrimonious exit from the company he co-founded, reflected on a childhood electrified by computing's magic. At 10, he tinkered with a teletype terminal at NASA's Ames Research Center, marveling as BASIC code brought his ideas to life. This thrill, he said, was "incredibly thrilling," a portal to unseen power. By 12, Jobs cold-called Hewlett-Packard's Bill Hewlett for parts to build a frequency counter, landing not just components but a summer job that imprinted his ideal of a company: one that wheeled out coffee and donuts, honoring employees as its heart.

The narrative pivoted to audacious youth. Teaming with Steve Wozniak, Jobs dove into "blue boxing," hacking AT&T's phone network with tones mimicking computer signals—a flaw in its voice-band design. Their digital device, etched with "He's Got the Whole World in His Hands," routed calls worldwide for free, even pranking the Vatican as Henry Kissinger. "We could build a little thing that could control a giant thing," Jobs recalled, a eureka that birthed Apple. Necessity fueled the Apple I: a handmade terminal extension for free time-sharing, sold via scrappy sales of buses and calculators to fund circuit boards. Paul Terrell's Byte Shop order for 50 assembled units forced credit deals and midnight assemblies in a garage, netting profit from the rest. This bootstrapped chaos, Jobs mused, eased them into business without fanfare.

Apple's ascent intertwined vision and grit. Mike Markkula's investment packaged the Apple II for software hobbyists, debuting at the 1977 West Coast Computer Faire with color graphics that "stole the show." At 21, Jobs learned management by probing "whys," dismantling folklore like standard costing that masked sloppy controls. Wealth amassed—$100 million by 25—but paled against enabling human potential. Xerox PARC's 1979 demo of graphical interfaces blinded him to networking and objects, yet screamed inevitability: "All computers would work like this someday." Xerox squandered it, Jobs argued, as "toner heads" from sales eclipsed product geniuses in their monopoly, a rot afflicting IBM too. Apple's mimicry faced internal HP-bred skepticism—engineers scoffed at mice costing $300—but Jobs prototyped one for $15 in 90 days, forging ahead.

Triumphs and pitfalls defined the Macintosh era. Losing Lisa's helm to mismatches—$10,000 for Apple's affordable ethos—spurred a skunkworks "mission from God." Jobs toured 80 Japanese factories, birthing the world's first automated computer plant. The Mac reinvented everything: cheaper chips, new marketing, a $1,000 price tag. Motivating the team? Passion and bluntness. "The work is all that matters," he said, likening A-players' friction to rocks tumbling into gems. Desktop publishing exploded via the LaserWriter, an Adobe-Canon pact Jobs muscled through despite naysayers, making Apple the top printer firm by revenue. Yet, 1985's recession cracked the facade. John Sculley's Pepsi-honed survival instincts scapegoated Jobs amid paralysis, ousting him despite his pleas for a research role. "He destroyed everything I'd spent 10 years working for," Jobs lamented, values eroding in his wake.

Exile at NeXT sharpened Jobs' gaze forward. Apple, he diagnosed in 1995, was "dying a painful death," its 10-year lead frittered on stagnant R&D yielding mere 25% evolution. Microsoft, boosted by IBM's Saturn V, opportunistically dominated via persistence, but without taste—"third-rate products" sans enlightenment, like fonts ignoring typesetting heritage. NeXT, a 300-person outfit, perfected Xerox's object-oriented tech, slashing software build times 10-fold for business warfare, echoing MCI's billing coup. The web, Jobs foresaw, would redefine society: catalogs migrating online, smallest firms rivaling giants in direct channels. Computers, the "bicycle of the mind," amplified innate abilities, outpacing condors in efficiency. Direction? Taste from liberal arts—musicians, poets on the Mac team stealing Picasso's ethos: great artists steal.

Jobs' hippie roots infused this vision. The 1970s' "inrush" beyond jobs and cars sought deeper meaning, much like poets over bankers. Apple's spirit resonated; users "loved" Macs for that intangible wonder. Transmitting feelings through code, he believed, elevated tech from tool to medium. As history unfolded, computers would rank atop inventions if nudged right—toward communication over mere computation. This lost interview, raw and prescient, captures Jobs not as icon but catalyst: a boy who phoned Hewlett, now pondering vectors in Silicon Valley's dawn, urging humanity's amplification through enlightened craft.